Failing To Proceed

[Martin Lawrie]

Ladies and Gentlemen! Now I have your attention with a picture I took at Pace Products of the successful 2016 Alpine Rally 'Works' 105s and (of course!) my own "Fuggle", I have a question for you!



The TOC Spares Committee is currently wrestling with the problem of what new spares should be held in stock. Many years of asking the membership has met with some response, though we now believe that responses are probably be based on "what do I currently need?" rather than "what will I need in the future?"



We now think that if we were to canvas the membership as to what parts commonly fail on these old motor cars, we may be able to compile a list of those parts that may be a good idea to carry with the vehicle or have in stock for rapid despatch for those in need.



With this in mind, I am inviting you as venerable Talbot owners to recount your disaster stories of "failing to proceed"! This could be a bit of fun with more than a degree of schadenfreude included and some "there but for the grace of god...." thrown-in but it would also give us some idea of what has commonly "let go" at precisely the wrong moment!



Of course we'd also be happy to hear from you even if you don't have a breakdown story but do have a view as to what parts may be required!



Your Committee Needs You!

[gordon higginbotham]

I have had two failures to proceed in the years I have had my Scout. The first was to have the handbrake lock on after I had come to a halt and set the handbrake on. This was due to failure of the thread at the end of the handbrake release rod resulting in no release of the ratchet. On replacing the rod I realised that the set up of the effective length of the release rod needs to be set up so that catch releases as the hand lever makes contact with the hand brake. If not the full force of your grip is applied to the thread which results ultimately in thread stripping.

My second failure to proceed was driving along the A1. The engine just died! After much pfaffing about in the rain without finding any obvious cause, after wiping out the inside of the distributor cap around the central electrode, which had a slight oil film, all was well. Since then I wipe out the distributor once a year and have never had a recurrence. Repair procedure for replacing the central electrode would be a nice to have.

[Guy Gregory]

My biggest issue has been half shafts of the 14hp variety. My first Talbot (now in Switzerland), was a PL type replica - 9' 3" scout chassis fitted with a 75 engine (and 14/45 sump!) It had the 14hp spur gearbox and a 14/45 back axle. I was leaving a junction close to home when the o/s shaft snapped. My current 75 to 90 spec was a fettlers and they managed to snap my o/s half shaft. I discovered these were also 14hp shafts so James Wheildon and I rebuilt the back axle with the later thicker half shafts (mostly James to be fair!) Other problems have mostly been electrical, not thanks to Georges but rather my poor electrical attempts (wired from scratch). So in 12 years of Talbot ownership, only once have I failed to drive home under my own power and fingers crossed it stays that way!
Looking forward to other members experiences. With regard to central electrodes, Martin Bryant published a magazine article a while back - it may even be in the Technical Manual

[jameswheildon]

Oh Dear, In 38 years and well over 100,000 miles of joyful Talbot motoring, there have been numerous times the car has failed to proceed. In the Alpes, middle of January, Monte Carlo Challenge, temperature well below freezing and my 75 running like a grizzly bear with hiccups. It eventually stopped in the middle of absolutely nowhere. Richard and I investigated and found the distributor cap tracking all over the place. I went to the box of spares I always carried to find someone had previously removed the spare cap which I always (well nearly) have with me. I rightly had the blame for that. Richard is a fan of modern Fords and he said to me "Where on earth are we going to find a cap for this, you wouldn't find one for a Cortina up here?" We were the only Talbot on the rally and he didn't expect another competitor to have a suitable spare for us. I pointed out that a few minutes behind was a MK6 Bentley special run by an RAF helicopter pilot and navigator, they were sure to have a spare. Sure enough within five minutes we flagged then down, commandeered their spare cap. Within 20 minutes we were motoring again. That incident cost me several beers in Monte. Another time.....................

[Guy Gregory]

Posted on behalf of Martin and Hilary Bryant:
Talbot Failures to Proceed

Dear Martin,

As promised here are the recollections from Hilary and I after a sunny g&t in the lockdown garden.

The First G&T

We have recorded only those events where a failure to proceed was the direct result of a broken part and therefore relevant to your request. Failure to proceed due to operator error, such as running out of fuel or damp distributor cap are left to embarrassed memory! These experiences come from many tens of thousands of Talbot miles over twenty years on the roads of twelve different countries. They mainly relate to the Talbot 105.

1.Broken crankshaft.

Parts implications : Not reasonable to expect such a rare and expensive item to be available new on the shelf. Club should be able to recommend where part can be made and material specifications. It should have intelligence about where spares might reside. Chris Brett saved my bacon by recalling that Cecil Schumacher had two spare crankshafts under his bench. So it proved to be and one has taken us on many an adventure since.

2.Failed cush drive

Parts implications : Should be on the shelf along with gearbox input shaft which is usually worn as well.

3.Loose contact breaker post on distributor base plate

Parts implications : Club to make members aware of the excellent repair service provided by the Distributor Doctor. Touring Spares Box (TSB) to carry spare base plate (possibly distributor?)

4.Failed charging contacts in change over switch.

Parts implications : Starting and charging contacts should be on the shelf items. Club to set up repair arrangement with Carwoods and keep Delco replacement switch on shelf. One carried in tsb.

5.Split radiator

Parts implications : None. Club make owners aware of professional radiator repairers. TSB to carry radiator putty.

6.Failed crown wheel and pinion

Parts implication : Should be on the shelf

7.Failed in line fuel filter

Parts implication : None. All drivers should carry a spare. Ditto TSB

8.Failed condenser

Parts implications : None. All drivers should carry multiple spares. Ditto TSB.

The second G&T

Over the second g&t we recalled fail to proceeds that had occurred to friends on these trips :-

1.Broken pushrod

Parts implications: Should be on the shelf – second hand. Carried in TSB

2.Failed cylinder head gasket

Parts implications : Should be on the shelf. Carry in TSB?

3.Broken front brake spring

Parts implications : Should be on the shelf. Carried in TSB

4.Failed radiator cap seal.

Parts implications : Should be on the shelf. Carried in TSB

5.Failed front wheel bearing.

Parts implications : Should be on the shelf. Used bearing carried in TSB

6.Failed pre selector gearbox spring

Parts implications : Should be on the shelf. Carried in TSB

7.Failed condenser.

Parts implications : As( 8 )above

8.Failed dynamotor brush

Parts implications : Should be on the shelf. Carried in TSB

9.Failed dynamotor field windings

Parts implications : None. Club to hold second hand parts and make all owners aware of Carwoods excellent serevice.

10.Failed rocker

Parts implications : Should be on shelf – second hand. Carried in TSB.

By this time the sun had set, the gin bottle was empty and we had set the Talbot on fire!

Martin and Hilary Bryant (25.4.20 when we should have been Talboting on the Ralli Eryri)

[Martin Lawrie]

These are great, Gents, Keep them coming!

[dick campbell]

Having just completed a lengthy rebuild of my car, which incidentally, was deemed to have not a lot wrong with it!! I have some recent experience of sourcing spare parts and services.

Until recently I held the view that the Club should hold and retail spare parts. Now apart from 'Specials' I don't believe it should. The usual suppliers had all of the parts that I needed...which was extensive....and involved completely overhauling and/or modifying the engine, rear axle, gearbox and running gear....I never had a problem sourcing parts.

'Specials' are things like electronic voltage regulators, plastic lamp lenses, but once these are developed, they could be turned over to current suppliers.

Spare parts usually fall into a number of headings......

Consumables.......points, plugs, condensors etc, these can be sourced from many places including Ebay etc.

Insurance parts... these are 'I must have ones of these just in case' Depends on where you are going and what you are doing.

Restoration spares.....extensive needs, see list of suppliers.

Our resources could be put to use in helping to manage the development of spares that are not currently being made.....guessing, these would be trim parts and hard to find items like door handles, switches, instruments, body brightwork, lamps etc.

Owners also fall into different categories....Those never do anything themselves, Those who do servicing and minor running repairs and Those with appropriate skills and facilities that live in workshops, avoiding the outside World, embarking on outrageous automotive quests.

All have different support requirements.

So, to summarise,

Develop hard to source parts.
May be, stock a few selected items.

Do not become a serious retail outfit.......it isn't necessary and someone will have to manage it.

Hope that this ramble helps........going back to the solitude of the workshop now.

Dick.

[Martin Lawrie]

That's great, Dick, thanks for the feedback!

[Martin Lawrie]

I would like to thank all those that responded to my survey. I did indeed get tales of "failing to proceed" which were enjoyable in a "There but for the grace of god, go I" point ov view! I also received a couple of lists of parts that members considered that the club should offer.

I've summarised the results in a table which hopefully is attached to this posting!

Thanks again! TOC Spares Survey Results for Mag.pdf

[jameswheildon]

Hi Martin,

Glad the survey brought results. I know this is not the right place but I've just spent the afternoon of the hottest day of the year trying, and failing so far, to put the block back into my 95. it is a job I've done a dozen times over the years on various Talbots and this is at least the third time on this one over a 40 year period and it is always a good struggle. It cannot be done with head on or with head studs in place, yet in your Fuggle fettling you fitted the engine completely rebuilt with rocker box in place., and glossed over it in a single sentence. I suspect you, or Mr. Fuggle, have cut out a cross member or two. You really have not lived until you've defeated Mr Roesch's conundrum of the closing angles!!

[Martin Lawrie]

There was a little glossing, I confess. The block was put in with no head and no studs as per usual. It needed a little ratchet-strap action as well to get the sump mounting to line up with the crossmember hole and a bottle jack as Guy did!

[Guy Gregory]

On the 75/90, I had to use a bottle jack between the front chassis members to get the width to allow the block to slide in between them

[jameswheildon]

That all makes me feel much better. Half an hour of gentle persuasion this morning and the block is in place. It is still being hanged on the block and tackle with a trolley jack under the rear of the sump. Engine bolts next task.

[Guy Gregory]

sorry I'm not down there to help you - the dream team of Wheildon and Gregory worked so well on my back axle!!
We should have been with you this weekend of course

[dick campbell]

That all makes me feel much better. Half an hour of gentle persuasion this morning and the block is in place. It is still being hanged on the block and tackle with a trolley jack under the rear of the sump. Engine bolts next task.

Hi James,

Having removed and refitted my engine more times than expected.......I am trying to forget the reasons why......, I found that the easiest way was to leave the flywheel, head and sump off. With the sump off and no rear mounting fixing, the block can be easily moved fore and aft to locate the front engine bolts.

The engine bolts can be a challenge. I had to make new ones, so machined a good chamfer on the end that goes into the block.

Dick.

[jameswheildon]

Hi Dick, I have never thought of doing it with the sump off. Anyway it is where the good George intended now and it is going to stay there for many years to come ( I hope I am not speaking too soon!). Next job is chuck Cecil's beautifully rebuilt gearbox in the hole behind it, should be a doddle Mr Archer was right, your friends always desert you in your hour of need. Had you been here Guy we might have been driving it about by now having returned from the Dorset Dawdle. There is always next year! James.