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Fuggle's Truck Engine Restoration

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  • #16
    7th July 2019:

    The weekend brings a bit of Fuggle Fettling with some more work on the Fuggle truck's engine.

    I finally cleaned up the valve gear which are works of art all of their own. I have four tappet assembly blocks that are the same part number and two that have another part number on them but they look identical to me!

    The valves were thankfully all ground in for me at Automotive Services so all I thought I had to do was fit them with the new valve springs. Unfortunately, one of the new exhaust valves isn't the same length as its mates so I will have to try and find another to match even though they were sold to me as a set (but not by Automotive Services!). The inlet valves have HNS stamped in them - anyone know what this may be?
    The object of this exercise was to see if I needed to make new pushrods so I pressed-on without two of the exhaust valves fitted (one to be uses as a pattern).
    The new gasket went on with a little persuasion while the head didn't need much and sat down nicely.
    With all the valve gear fitted (nearly all!) it really looked like I'm getting somehwere so I place my newly painted (well, 18 months ago!) rocker cover on. I still need to finesse the oil feed tube to the rockers and work out how on earth I do up the big nut between numbers 4 and 5 rocker blocks - this is a head stud but it's the one that brings the oil up to the head and is M12 rather than M10, with a 5/16" Whitworth nut which has zero clearance for a socket or a spanner.
    I ran out of time to consider the push rods and valve clearances - maybe next week?
    Maybe this year it'll be back in the truck?
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    • #17
      11th July 2019:

      The weekend Fettling on the Fuggle truck's engine ended with a conundrum - how to tighten up the last cylinder head nut that was trapped between two rocker blocks?

      This was bugging Mr Fuggle so we checked the original Talbot 14/45 owner's handbook from 1929. It shows in great detail the process behind de-coking the engine and setting the valve clearances afterwards. Obviously, this was something you did regularly once you'd mowed the lawn in your shirt and tie. In the picture you can clearly see the adjusting nuts for the tappets are on the same side as the exhaust. When I dismantled the truck I found them on the other side so refitted them that way. This evening, I turned them all around and lo and behold, the 5th and 6th ones have cut-outs on the side nearest the nut to allow a spanner to get in and even a socket! None of the others have this, indicating that they'd been labelled correctly and I'd fitted them in the right place (but the wrong way round).
      Mr. Fuggle can sleep now!
      Before that, I think we'll buy another ARB nut to match the new ones on the rest of the head studs and that'll be even easier to do up!
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      • #18
        14th July 2019:

        Some more weekend Fuggle Truck engine work this weekend:

        Having fitted the cylinder head and valve gear (most of it) correctly, I needed to work out what length of pushrods I needed.

        The plan was to have the rockers horizontal at half lift.First, I set the tappet I was to measure to zero clearance.
        Next, I used my dial gauge to estimate where the valve was fully open. Once I'd worked out its lowest point, I set the dial gauge to zero. Then, I turned the engine over until the valve was fully closed and read-off the value. For this valve, I got a reading of 0.305". Half of that is 0.1525 so i turned the engine back until the dial gauge read that value. This is half lift.

        Having set the engine at half lift for that valve (number 12), I moved the dial gauge to rest on the top of the rocker above the pushrod. Then, I turned the engine back until the rocker was horizontal which I checked using slips on each side until they were equal. This gave me a value of 0.043".

        This meant that I needed a set of pushrods that are 0.043" shorter than the ones I already have.

        Then I realised that the end of the pushrod I used for this test was very worn. It should be a nice hemisphere and this one was very flat-earth at the cam follower end! When I blued-it, it showed that it wasn't seating in the follower. I found a better pushrod with nice hemispheres on both ends. After I checked that it seated properly with engineer's blue, I repeated the tests above. This time, this pushrod was exactly the right length. I am more comfortable with this reading because since the original pushrod has nice ends, it's probably not that worn and so is giving me a length close to what it should original have been.

        So, off to some machinists to get a few sets of pushrods made and then heat treated. They were originally made by knitting neelde manufacturers, I suspect they're hard to find these days!!
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        • #19
          8th August 2019:

          A bit late but a bit more weekend Fuggling on the truck to report:

          It seems that one should always check the clearances for the main and big end bearings prior to assembling them and not assume that they've all been machined correctly. Gareth Burnett asked me if I'd checked them as if it was obvious. It wasn't and I hand't!

          So, my first experience with Plastigauge!
          This stuff is like strips of Mini Baby Bel cheese rind which you lay across the bearing journal, replace the bearing cap and tighten to the correct torque. Then you remove the caps and read off how far the cheese rind has been squished on a cheat card supplied with the kit.
          Once you have the reading, you compare that with what the journals of your size should be and you have your answer.
          Thanks to Automotive Services who ground the crank and JEL Bearings of Skelton who did the metalling, the clearances are all spot-on, with 0.0015" on the big ends and 0.001" on the mains! Now to put the thing together for the last time?
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          • #20
            17th August 2019: Weekend Fuggle truck work is finally a measure of the compression ratio achieved by skimming the top of the block.
            This needed a burette. I was in short trousers the last time I used one of these and was in short trousers doing it today but with 40 odd years in between!
            Having levelled the head and measured the volume of three of the chambers, I realised that the head gasket was going to have an influence (!) so clamped that to the head and measured one of the chambers again to work out the volume within the combustion chamber region of the gasket.
            The standard Talbot 65 engine (I don't have the data for the 14/45 but they're essentially the same engine and this head's off a 65 anyway) had a compression ratio of 6.50:1. If I've done my sums right, I have an eye watering increase to 6.71:1! I may consider whether it is worth my while to skim some off the head as well to see if I can get 7.0:1 which would be more useful!
            The instructions that came with the burette suggested using paraffin. I didn't have any of that so used methylated spirits. Unfortunately, I left it all assembled for lunch and found that the perspex plate had disintegrated because of the solvent. Ho Hum.
            The gasket is at least two years old (I've had it two years anyway) so that will need to be reannealed in the near future so messing about with it here won't (I hope!) have made any difference to it.
            More on the head work later.

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            • #21
              17th August 2019:

              The Fuggle truck's manifold saga!

              The original system for 14/45 Talbot engines was a one-piece casting which incorporated both inlet and exhaust manifolds in one. With the obvious differences in temperature and the sheer length of them, the inevitable consequence was that they crack. Often.

              The truck actually came with a conversion set fitted (almost) which is a nicely cast exhaust manifold and an inlet manifold in aluminium. To fit it to the car (since there are only studs on the head for the original set-up) Fuggle had been fitted with a thin (3mm) plate which had the necessary additional studs welded to it. It wasn't pretty or elegant nor efficient. I do have an original one-piece maifold and considered that I may use that rather than pursue the poor fitting of the conversion set. I discussed this with Vincent Rawlings (THE Talbot 14hp guru) to see what he suggested. To my suprise, he told me that it was he and his brother Anthony who had developed these split manifolds in the first place! He also spotted a crack in the original manifold straight away, making the use of the conversion mandatory! The Rawlings conversion kit was supposed to entail drilling the cylinder head and tapping the new holes ready for studs which would hold on the new inlet manifold and using the existing studs for the exhaust. Whoever fitted this to Fuggle didn't get the memo. Vincent, of course, still has the correct drilling and tapping jig for the kit and reassured me that Talbot must have considered this themselves while making the patterns for the cylinder head because there was additional 'meat' exactly where the drillings were needed to accomodate the new studs.
              With the help of Cecil Schumacher and Mike Stevenson (and Mr. Bridgeport!) we soon had 6 new holes drilled and tapped and the new separate inlet and exhaust manifolds fitted properly!
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              • #22
                18th August 2019:


                Having mocked it up as far as possible, the time came to put the engine for Mr Fuggle's 1929 Talbot 14/45 truck back together properly.

                This meant carefully dismantling it and giving it all another good clean. Then the cam followers went in, followed by the camshaft and cam gear which were all covered in mayonnaise like assembly grease.

                I decided at this late stage to adopt a modification I had seen on Talbot 75 engines which have a tiny hole at the bottom of the oil filter pocket in the block which is directly above the timing gear. There is no other oil supply in this part of the engine for the camshaft gear and crankshaft timing gear so this should allow a little oil in to that area.

                The pistons then have to go in down the bores from inside the crank case because the bores are too narrow to get the con rods down the normal way, from the top. They don't have any piston rings on at this stage but the gudgeon pins were properly fitted and the spring clips fitted in their grooves to hold them in.

                Then the crankshaft goes in, using a chain block to carefully lower it down onto its new bearings and in between the two thrust surfaces on the first bearing, making sure of course that the timing marks coincide with the camshaft gear which means looking at them from underneath while carefully lowering it. Easy.

                Fitting the piston rings was a nervous time but made easier by the brilliant engine stand which allows theblock to sit at any angle. These are NOS pistons at +0.030" - imagine trying to find individual piston rings to replace any broken ones? The two compression rings and one oil control ring above the gudgeon pin were all fitted. I left off the other oil control ring below the gudgeon pin because there was no easy way of fitting it!

                The bottom end is now complete.

                Now I just need to work out how to fit the 6 hole flywheel and clutch from the original 14/45 crankshaft on to the end of the replacement Talbot 65 crankshaft which has 8 holes in the flange.....

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                • #23
                  27th August 2019:

                  More movement on a solution for the mismatching flywheel and crankshaft for Mr. Fuggle's Truck this weekend.

                  The crankshaft that was in the engine is an original 14/45AG one which has 6 holes for attaching the clutch. The "new" crankshaft that I fitted is an AX65 crank, designed for a traffic clutch or preselector gearbox and has 8 holes. The flywheel has 6 holes.

                  After much consultation and a little travel (a nice visit with the TOC spares stock, James Fack and a chocolate eclair), it became clear that to continue to use the 14/45 flywheel and fan assembly, I'd need to modify it by drilling 6 new holes in it.
                  On an engineering front, this is probably an OK solution so I'm going for it. Two of the holes will remain because the 6 and 8 hole patterns are on the same PCD. I decided to do a dry run with some polycarbonate I had lying around and found a really useful website which works out the coordinates of the holes for you by just putting in the PCD and the number of holes you need.
                  Hey presto! A crib table for accurately drilling the extra holes using my little Warco milling machine. The drilled polycarbonate puck now fits on the end of the crank so I should be good to go! I just need the courage to get on with it now!

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                  • #24
                    27th August 2019: Two steps forward, one step back!
                    Having discovered a route forward for the flywheel issue, I now discover that the "new" crank also has drillings in it to deliver engine oil at engine oil pressure through to the gearbox. This is to feed oil to the preselector gearbox that I don't have. With my old 4 speed crash gearbox, I don't think that having engine oil delivered at 40psi to the clutch is a good idea!
                    After much measuring of the different crankshafts and preparing a drawing to make sense of it, I now realise that a simple M32 bung screwed in to the "new crank" should hold back the oil and leave clearance for the primary pinion on the 4 speed crash gearbox. A bit of consultation with the Gurus and I reckon that is one step backwards that I don't need to take!

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                    • #25
                      15th September 2019:
                      One step forward for Mr. Fuggle's truck: the flywheel now has 8 holes instead of 6!
                      With the help of my Warco WM14 Milling machine from Warco Machine Tools Limited, I was able to read-off the correct coordinates for the holes with the digital read out, mark their position with a centre point drill, drill them smaller than 8mm and then open them out with a reamer.
                      Now it will fit on the crankshaft!
                      Next to bung up the hole in the end of the crank to stop oil at 40psi from filling up the clutch! I found the correct bung from Motan Colortronic who very kindly donated a stainless steel M32 bung to the cause. I just needed to shorten it and it'll work fine.

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                      • #26
                        22nd September 2019:

                        Weekend workshop for Fuggle's Truck!

                        After being inspired by the great turnout of Talbots at the Kop Hill Climb and the bonus of a trip up the hill in a beautiful 105 thanks to David Roxburgh it was back to the job in hand for Mr. Fuggle!

                        The flywheel has returned from vapour blasting looking very smart and with the steel part ready for paint. OK, it has some more holes than it should but it'll work well. One of the holes that has now been bunged up is the oil outlet from the back of the crank. The new M32 bung (with fibre washer behind) went in well and is now snug. I have a new spigot bearing, too, which will be fitted in due course. I also made some new studs using EN16(T) and Mr. Fuggle's new Coventry Die Head for the oil pump. Before that gets fitted, I needed to trail fit the sump. There are "supposed" to be dowels in the sump so that you put it back in the right place. This is important because the back of the sump forms the other half of the scroll-type oil seal. I've been told that a couple of the holes on the flange are larger than the others to accomodate the dowels. They're all the same size! The only dowels I could find were two 3mm (?) steel pegs that are drilled in to the gearbox flange but have no corresponding holes in the crankcase.
                        So, it was over to the dynastart to assist in sorting this out. It was duly exhumed from storage and fitted to the crankcase with 3 of its bolts (and with the help of the chain hoist - it's very heavy!). Then the sump was laid on the crankcase and the remaining three bolts fitted. It looks like all the other holes line-up fine but I'll need to wait for the new bolts and tube nuts to arrive before I try to fit it properly. The idea is to use Plastigauge to help locate and measure the clearances on the scroll. Maybe next week?

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                        • #27
                          6th October 2019:

                          After a short holiday, Mr. Fuggle gets back to his truck engine.

                          After being recommended by Vinnie to check the oilways in the block I removed the oil pressure gauge feed and the screwed-in core-plug.

                          Oh @£&*!
                          Obviously, with the many washes that the block has been through, the swarf from the line-boring had accumulated at the end of the main oil gallery, blocked by the oil pressure feed and the plug.
                          So. Crank out, bearing shells out and press in to service the No.4 Mk 1 Lee Enfield .303 cleaning rod.
                          That would have led to a short test-run, some unhappy mechanical noises and the engine out again. Bullet dodged (.303"!)
                          All clean, all checked and crank back in. So another step backwards but ever forward!
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                          • #28
                            8th October 2019:

                            Dare I say that there seems to be some progress?

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                            • #29
                              13th October 2019:

                              Visible progress with Fuggle's engine!

                              Having removed the gearbox and the clutch, the flywheel was refitted, followed by the gearbox. I then made up a fitting to attach a dial gauge to the input shaft. Then, the gearbox was lined up with the flywheel having first ensured the sump was lined-up with the block (!). There don't seem to be any sump bolts that are very different from any of the others. There are supposed to be two that act as dowels but they are remarkable by their similarity to each other. I decided that since the dynamotor is very specific about the position of the holes for its bolts, that would line-up the front of the sump and for the rear, I deduced the middle postion while trying to move the engine block left and right.

                              Talbot restoration seems to be a case of build-up - check - dismantle - build up - check - repeat. All sorted, and the moment, I've been waiting for for at least 2 years - Paint!! My favourite colour - Ferguson tractor grey!
                              I'm still waiting for pushrods but because the cylinder head has to go on once the block's in the vehicle (because it's fiddly to install that lot in the chassis) I'm very, very close to reinstalling the block, sump and gearbox back in to the truck!
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                              • #30
                                20th October 2019:

                                More weekend fettling on the Fuggle truck!

                                Despite the combined attack of Beri-Beri, Ebola and Lurgi that Mr. Fuggle is enduring at present (I have a cold!), there has been further progress..

                                I decided that the head would perform better with a coating of Glyptal. These engines do suffer from condensation in the rocker box so a nice coat (well, two coats) of paint will help with that and will also help oil draining back down in to the crankcase keeping it cleaner. Apparently, this stuff sticks like the proverbial so I'm not concerned with it flaking off. So all the valves came out again and the paintbrush waved at it.
                                I also reconditioned the aluminium oilers for the top of the rocker-blocks on Vinnie's recommendation. The tops of them get worn by over-zealous tightening over the years. There's a small oil hole in their underside so this can be tapped to M6 enabling you to bolt the part to Vinnie's fixture which goes in the lathe chuck. Then it's just a case of cleaning up the surface with a lathe cutter.
                                I also made a new strap for the rocker blocks. Each cylinder has its own rocker block which holds the rocker fulcrums in place. The blocks are fixed to the head with two studs in the centreline of the block. Apparently, in use, there is a tendency for the alternate action of the rockers and valve springs to cause the rocker blocks to, well, rock - sideways! The flat bar strap you can see screwed to each rocker block will now keep everything nice and solid when it's running (the new studs aren't screwed in fully in the picture). This was another recommendation from the Vincent Rawlings playbook! Besides, since it needed longer studs to fix it to the blocks, I had another excuse to use my Coventry Die Head!
                                I think the head is finished...
                                Not such progress on the block, sadly, in the process of fixing the flywheel to the crank, Mr. Fuggle was a bit overzealous with the torque wrench and two of the bolts snapped. This means that the sump will have to come off to replace them and new ones will need to be made. Bugger.
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