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Fuggle's Truck Engine Restoration

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  • #46
    Originally posted by gordon higginbotham View Post
    Re Bronze bodied SU with horizontal stud arrangement. Have a look at this page:
    I know Joe quite well but I suspect these would be very expensive! The SU catalogue has the HV3 with the vertical configuration, I guess they made both.


    • #47
      A bit more "Scan n Cut" action today. Mr Fuggle needs an exhaust flange gasket for the truck and no-one seems to have them.
      Back to Brother's website and their CanvasWorkspace software and after trying to remember school geometry, I managed to get a decent design. The cardboard sample fits really well so I will now contact the local water jetting company and see how much it would be to cut some 1mm (ish) copper (or 0.043") for me.
      These will fit Talbot AG 14/45s either with standard exhausts or with the Rawlings conversion. Would anyone else be interested in one as I'm thinking of having a few made?
      I'm not sure if they'll fit the AD as the part number is different. The AG 14/45 part number is 308020.

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      • #48
        A final push on the Holiday Fettling of Mr. Fuggle's truck has 2020 starting the way 2019 left off: Two steps forward; one step back!

        After procrastinating for too long, I decided that there weren't any more excuses for putting the head back on. I had re-routed the fuel line I fitted when I put it back on the road to the other side of the engine to keep the left hand side as clean as it is supposed to be; I had made and fitted the SU adapter and even prepared for having flange gaskets made for the exhaust. Today was the day!
        I cleaned the gasket with scotchbrite to remove the soot left by the heat treatment and carefully applied Wellseal to the block. Then I noticed that the large hole for the big head stud was in the wrong place on the gasket. These Talbots have one of the head studs much larger than the other to carry oil up to the head. This is placed one stud back from the middle. The gasket had it in the middle. Odd. Never mind, I opened the hole out with a de-burring tool and the stud passed through. Happy with this, I applied Wellseal to the gasket and waited 15 minutes for it to get really sticky and then placed the gasket on the top of the block.

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        Despite the gasket being bought as a pair in November and having the same part number written on it, it isn't the right size! It's over a quarter of an inch longer than the block! The other one of the NOS pair is fine, as is a newer replacement I bought two years ago. The newer one was heat treated at the same time but still fits OK.

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        Is it possible that the older solid copper gasket expanded in the heat treatment process while the more recent pattern one, treated at the same time didn't? It can only really be the heat treatment process because originally they were made by stamping them out one end at a time, the difference between the two is like one's been photocopied at 105% so I can't think how this could've happened during manufacture!
        Anyway, luckily I had the newer replacement, annealed and ready to go so the head is now on!

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        Just waiting for pushrods which I've been told are on their way!
        Happy 2020!


        • #49
          After some excellent CAD action from Jason Reece (Thanks Jason!) and a bit of water jetting I have now a collection of Talbot 14/45 exhaust flange gaskets in 1mm Copper. I will have a go at annealing one and fitting it to Mr. Fuggle's truck at the weekend.

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          • #50
            Well, another step backwards with the Fuggle truck.

            Mr Fuggle decided to fill the gearbox and engine with oil. Since the gearbox is connected to the engine with a balance pipe and the lid was off the gearbox, 4 litres of oil went in the gearbox (not knowing its capacity). This then drained in to the engine to the proper level in the gearbox. The engine takes 9 litres, apparently, so over 6 litres down and suddenly it looked like the Torrey Canyon had sailed past. I had left the bung out of the side of the sump which you remove to set the pressure relief valve. This shouldn't have happened - except that the gearbox only takes one litre so 3 litres were already in the engine when I poured in another 6 or so and the level reached heights that it was never designed for and leaked out of the bung.
            A litre of oil was scraped off the floor and a ton of cat litter called in to action.
            With all the oil in, it seemed that the gearbox had a leak. Maybe it was because it was over-filled? All the oil was drained out of the gearbox and it was left for a couple of days. The oil that was drained out was then put back but the leak reappeared. Bugger!
            The backplate of the gearbox was sealed (so I thought) with RTV when I rebuilt it but that obviously wasn't sealing. So, the rear axle was removed again and the torque tube pulled off the back of the gearbox and the backplate removed.
            Taking no chances (and not wanting to remove the axle and torque tube for a third time) the Brother Scan n Cut was again pressed in to service and after a couple of hours (!), I have a backplate gasket and one for the torque tube. There was never a gasket on the original scheme but, as the gasket material is only 0.25mm thick, I don't think that two layers of that will cause too many problems with the geometry of the torque tube.
            Maybe these will stop the leaks?

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            • #51
              A few steps forward on Mr. Fuggle's truck this weekend, the pushrods have arrived (well, after I had extricated them from the delivery office in the town where I used to live!)!

              I had the ends carefully lapped to give them a perfect 2.5mm radius and finally got the valve gear installed.

              The tappets are now set with initial gaps; the ignition is timed; the points gaps are set; the twin points are synchronised; a NOS condenser is fitted; the carburetter is on; the choke linkage is sorted; the fuel lines are installed; there's oil in it; the gearbox lid is on and felt oiler installed; it's on its wheels; the original exhaust is on and the battery is charged. There are fewer and fewer excuses not to get it started except it's run out of fuel!
              I reckon I just need to put some fuel in it, some spark plugs, some water in the radiator and hook up the throttle linkage and it'll be time to see if the hard work has paid off.

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              • #52
                26th January 2020:

                It seems a shame to open this!

                It was probably packed in the 30's or 40's in Australia, and has just had a trip half way across the world (and a Royal Mail import charge!).

                These were shared with lots of '20's and '30's American cars (thankfully not with Rolls Royce like the distributor cap which is a fortune!) but nevertheless, the only one I could find was in Oz. I wonder if the 12 month guarantee started when it was packed or from when it is fitted....
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                • #53
                  15th February 2020:

                  Quite a substantial step backwards for Mr Fuggle's truck last week.

                  The big start-up was planned with three Talbot gurus present to pontificate (Cecil, Vinnie and David Hawkins). After re-setting the ignition timing (I had fitted it 180 degrees out - schoolboy error) and a little cranking, it fired-up! There were no horrible noises and 55psi of oil pressure (must turn that down!). There's a horrendous leak from the exhaust manifold but that can be sorted.

                  One step forward you would think but no. There was no oil getting to the rockers. The Talbot engine has one cylinder head stud which is hollow. One of the camshaft journals has an oilway leading up to the stud so the oil runs up there to a banjo and a pedestal and then along an oiler that runs across the top of the rockers. But no oil. I removed the stud and peered down the hole with a boroscope and could see the camshaft so there was no blockage. When the engine was turning over it did slow down just as the pressure started to rise on the gauge so there is oil getting to the main bearings and the camshaft but no further. The gurus left but were clearly considering the problem on their way home because Vinnie came up with the answer just as I was contemplating pulling the engine out again. There should be grooves ground in to the camshaft journals to let the oil through. They're not there! Kent cams had not ground them in, despite them being on the drawing I sent them and the old camshaft that I also sent them.

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                  Two options: pull the engine, have the camshaft modified and refit it; or rig up an oil system to lubricate the top end.
                  After a lot of thinking and much more machining on both lathes, I have the solution. It's complicated because I didn't want to drill holes in the rocker cover and it needs to be relatively easy to get the cover off to set the tappets etc.
                  The result is a feed from the oil pressure gauge pipe which runs to a couple of banjos on a new stud assembly which replaces the third stud for the rocker cover. From here, the oil passes to a copper pipe down to the original hollow stud to then feed the rockers and the camshaft (as a fringe benefit).

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                  I'm just waiting for some brake pipe unions and I can then fit it and see if it works. Fingers crossed!
                  More Heath-Robinson than Georges Roesch!


                  • #54
                    22nd February 2020:

                    The oiling system is now sorted out on Mr Fuggle's truck. There was a minor teething problem with one of the fixings which didn't have sufficient strength but with a new beefier one made, the system works! What doesn't work is the exhaust manifold. When the engine did start briefly before we worked out there was no oil at the top end, there was a horrible leak at the manifold. There were no leaks before I dismantled the engine two years ago so I had no reason to suspect the manifold but in hindsight, the entire tubes' worth of silicon sealer I found all over it should've been a clue! The straight edge tells the story. Off to a machinist!
                    The good news is that it came off without removing the head or the steering box. Time will tell if it'll go back on....
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                    • #55
                      2nd March 2020:

                      A bit more Fuggling at the weekend!

                      The very leaky exhaust manifold was skillfully skimmed last week. It needed 0.040" taken off just to get it flat again but it looked the business.

                      After some competition standard swearing, the exhaust manifold and inlet manifold were refitted in the tiny gap between the steering box and the head. The carb was refitted and the engine fired-up.

                      It still blew exhaust from the manifold.

                      The 1mm removed from the mating surface has reduced the distance between the manifold and the inlet manifold for the water pipe. This is a reproduction water manifold, I'm told, an Arthur Archer special, which has more 'belly' on it than standard. I had trial fitted it when I built the head up and had already machined a comfortable clearance on it but with the skimmed manifold, there wasn't enough.

                      So, the carb, inlet manifold, exhaust pipe and exhaust manifold were all taken off again and material was removed from the water manifold. Three times. I'm now getting faster at fitting and refitting these parts!

                      It was fouling at the bottom of the water manifold, not where it had fouled originally, of course.

                      Finally, I think I have enough clearance (about 0.006") between exhaust and water manifolds so it will all get reassembled and another start-up attempted.

                      On the positive side, it fires-up on first press of the button and idles well so it's showing promise.

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                      • #56
                        7th March 2020:
                        On the 7th May 2018, I started to strip the 1929 Talbot 14/45 "Fuggle Truck" and start the engine rebuild.
                        This afternoon, nearly 2 years later, It started and ran properly for the first time.
                        It sounds reasonably sweet and I've yet to finely set the ignition timing, set the carburetter mixture and tweak the tappets.

                        If I knew how to upload a video, you could even see it!


                        • #57


                          • #58
                            Thanks Martin for your posts - what a fantastic record of the issues involved in any Talbot engine rebuild - invaluable!


                            • #59
                              Thank you Guy!

                              I wasn't and still am not an expert and my learning curve has been steep but it has been aided by many more expert Talboteers than me. If I can help to swell the ranks of folks that know something about these vehicles so much the better!



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